Three Sides... One to go...

As of Sunday, June 22 at about 5 pm we have been able to complete the framing on three sides of the cottage. We had been hoping for more but it rained until about 7:30 am and then we spent - as revealed in a previous post an hour draining the basement of water from the massive rain storm the previous evening. So we started late.

On top of that we ended early - about 5 pm. And lucky we did as about 5:20 pm the skies opened up with rain once again. We we just able to get the tools away and the tarp back on the floor.

Next weekend the target is to finish the framing on the remaining walls put the sheathing up on all the exterior walls.

We are hoping to get the framing of the superstructure for the deck as well as it contains some key posts which support portions of the roofing trusses.

4 Steps to Rasing a Wall: Square, Prepare, Lift, Level and Brace,

Raising a wall is certainly not for the weak of body or mind. It requires strength and a mind for ensuring the wall is:

• Square
• Plumb, and
  
• Braced

Step 1: Making it Square
Well you don't actually make it 'a' square. Very seldom is a wall a perfect square!

What you need to do is make sure that the top and side studs are at a perfect 90 degrees. This is by applying a mathematics trick you learned way back in high school: a rectangle is perfectly 'square' when the distance from one corner to the another equals the distance on the opposing pair of corners. It takes a bit of effort making the wall square - usually done using a "persuader" ( a sledge hammer in our case) to drive a corner while holding the opposite corner in place. While blocks nailed temporarily into the floor can be used to secure the opposite corner - having a helper makes this process faster.

Once 'square' you will want to freeze the square by nailing in a temporary board to the wall. Here you can see we used a piece of plywood.

Step 2: Prepare
We used temporary blockers on the floor to backstop the wall as we slid it in to place and lifted it into place. Can you see them still in place?

Before we lifted the wall we first nailed a 12 foot 2 x 6 to support the wall. In this case on the left side of the wall, can you see it in place in the above picture? I secured it with one nail and had it lying so it was sticking past the top plate. This is so as we lifted the wall the brace would follow us dragging on the floor.

There are a few other things you need to get and have nearby:

• Air nailer with plenty of nails
• loose 3.5" nails and a hammer
• A level
• More bracing boards if you think you may need them
  

Step 3: Lift
Lifting a wall, especially when the wall is large can't be done alone. Get help! This requires at lease two people. It is a good idea to first raise and prop the top plate with a scrap piece of lumber. This make it easy to get your hands under the wall in the "clean and jerk" action you are about to do... Yes! framing Olympics...

Step 4 & 5: Level and Brace
The action of leveling and bracing really happens at the same time. First you do some bracing, then some leveling, and then repeat the process.

Once the wall is in the right location, secure the sole plate to the floor. Make sure you are getting lots of lumber when you nail. Put your nails through the sole plate and into the joists in the floor. ASIDE: It helps to have marked their location before your lifted the wall.

I like to level the end of the wall with the prepared brace first. This requires at least two people - although a third is sure handy. One holds the wall, and uses the level to ensure that end of the wall is perfectly vertical. The second person takes the brace and nails the other end to the side of the floor. Both ends of the wall should be secured in this way.

For this wall we simply put the small wall (right side of the wall in the picture) in place, leveled both walls simultaneously and nailed them together.

In the above picture you can also see we had the next wall, to the left of this current wall ready to lift, level and brace.

Framing, the 1st Wall on the 1st Floor

On Friday I was able to start framing the walls of the main floor.

I started with the smallest wall. This wall is east facing and has one window in it. In the picture to the right you can see all the components needed to frame a window. Can you place them?

• Header (Clue: it is made of 2)
  
• Sill (Clue: there is 1)
  
• Trimmers (Clue: there are 2)
• Sill Trimmers (clue there are 2)
  
• King Studs (there are 8)
• Jack studs (there are 3)
• Bottom(sole) plate
• Top plate
  

The longest part of the framing process is measuring and cutting the lumber as I use an air nailer to assemble the wall.

Notice the wall was assembled on the floor just in front of were it is to go. To ease the process of lifting it into plate you can see two temporary pieces of 2 x 6 that are sticking up from the floor - right at the end of the floor. These serve as a stopper so the wall doesn't fall over the edge as we raise it.

Prior to raising this wall I also framed the short wall that attaches on the right of this wall.

NEXT POST: raising the wall, making it plumb, and attaching the next wall.

A Hole in the floor...

The stairwell from the main floor to the basement has six steps down to a landing a 180 turn and 7 more steps to the basement floor.

To make this happen a bog hole needs to be cut in the main floor.

This hole is not a rectangle as might be expected but takes a bit of a jag over the downward half the of the stairwell.

Taking that much of supporting joists out of the floor means more bracing has to go in around the stair well opening in the floor AND and additional beam is used to support the section at the entrance to the stair well.

The beam is supported by three columns in the basement as shown in the next two pictures. The engineered joints are still exposed so you can see that that there is plenty of support from the center beam through to the extra beam for both the floor section ending at the beam and that section of the floor that is cantilevered over the new beam.

You will also notice that the cantilevered section of floor is also cut at an angle leading down to the basement. The purpose of this angle is to provide the building code clearance for your head as you step down the stairs.

Finally there is a set of blocking with short pieces of the engineered joists to provide further support at the end of the cantilevered section of floor. There will eventually be a rim board which will cover the ends of both sections to further strengthen the end portions of the floor.

For safety and to support the tarp which we not dutifully place on the floor every night and at the end of our weekend of work, we place lots of lumber and two hunks of 4' x 8' over the hole.

Human nor water can now enter the basement through the stairwell opening, at least not until the stairs are built!

Houston, We have a Concrete basement Floor...

When I arrived on This past Friday I was pleased to see that the contractor have poured the concrete basement floor.

The basement floor is usually poured well after the roof is on and the building closed in. This is so the concrete is not rained on or otherwise compromised by materials destroying the nice finish the concrete contractor puts on the floor.

It was kind of a nice feeling having the basement floor in - sort of a milestone of sorts... I could imagine what was to be built in the basement - two bedrooms, a workshop, bathroom and a laundry room, plus another living room area.

The floor is given a nice smooth finish and the concrete sloped, ever so gradually towards the drains that I install earlier. There are two drains. Can you determine where they are in the above picture? A clue -- there are a few water marks that give it away.

In a previous post (see "How to Make Sh#t Flow up Hill"") I described the process of putting in the plumbing under the basement floor. In the above and next two pictures you can see the almost finished product.

The first picture at the left shows, starting in the foreground, the water intake from the lake (with the wires taped to it), the sewage basin, the shower drain and the toilet waste pipe.

Of course these fixtures are not yet finished in that they need to be connected. each will have a specific adapter glued to it. For instance the toilet waste pipe will have something called a closet flange.

In the picture to the left, you see, from left to right, one of two floor drains and the wastes and vent pipe that will be used to drain the laundry tub and the washer.

The pictures don't quite do it justice but the floors are really smooth!

The Secret to a Noiseless Floor

The secret to a non-squeaky floor is not a secret at all. Make it strong!

Some of the elements to making a floor strong include:

• Use engineered joists, they tend not to twist as they pretty much arrive dry and not prone to movement
• Use bracing between the joints - here we used 1" x 4" bracing across the bottoms of the joists at 4 foot centers
• Use screws to secure the floor decking material, and us lots of them - definitely do not skimp here - we put them every 6 inches
• Use additional bracing between the joists at key places where the structure may suffer more weight or have cutouts in the floor structure such around stairwell openings.
  

Jack (posts) supports the floor

Even though the LVL beam constructed in the previous post is very strong, the span is just too long so support is required under the beam. The plans call for 2 columns - steel jack posts - set at 11 feet intervals.

Jack posts have 6 components:

1) two metal plates
- a bottom plate which is secured to the concrete footing so that the jack post does not move, and
- a top plate which is secured to the underside of the beam. This plate has a special hole in to which the an end of the threaded bar fits.

2) two metal tubes, one of fits inside the other. The smaller diameter tube has a number of holes in it.

3) A short 4" solid metal bar which fits into the holes in the smaller diameter tube. The two tubes are adjusted in length to fit the distance from the footing to the beam, and the length secured by placing the short bar in one set of holes.

4) a plate with a threaded bar in it. The plate fits over the top of the small diameter tube, and the other end of the threaded bar fits into the top plate secured to the bottom of the beam.

The height of the jack post is adjusted in 2 ways. Gross adjustment is done with the 2 metal tubes, securing the length by placing the short bar in holes in the small diameter tube. Fine adjustment is made by turning the threaded bar using a wrench.

The idea is to adjust the jack post so it is just supporting the beam.

This picture illustrates the top plate and the threaded bar. The top plate is secured to the bottom of the LVL beam, and the threaded bar is inserted into a hole in the top plate. A smaller plate rests on the top of the smaller diameter tube.

There are 'bumps' on the bottom of the smaller plate into which the tube fits.


This picture illustrates how the bottom plate is secured to the concrete footing and the larger diameter tube is placed on top of the bottom plate.

There are 'bumps' on the bottom plate over which the tube fits to hold it in place.

When the concrete floor is eventually poured the bottom 4" or more of the post will be embedded in the concrete floor, and hence permanently secure the post.

Support worthy of a dance floor...

There has been new building materials, commonly called engineered wood products, on the market for quite some time. One of those materials we are using in the Cottage is laminated veneer lumber (LVL) for the main beam supporting the floor.

Similar in appearance to plywood, LVL is an engineered wood product that uses multiple layers of thin wood assembled with adhesives. It offers several advantages over typical milled lumber: it is stronger, straighter, and more uniform, and is much less likely than conventional lumber to warp, twist, bow, or shrink due to its composite nature. LVL is typically used for headers, beams, rimboard, and edge-forming material.

LVL is still a relatively new product; it was developed in Canada in the late 1990s. High-tech, computerized sawing systems are what makes it possible to produce large-size, top quality construction material using relatively small trees.

The beam we are using is made up of three pieces of 1.25" x 9.5" LVL that are each 33 feet long. These things are long, awkward and heavy. Two people can pick up one of them but three pieces would be impossible without a crane. So we assembled the full beam by inserting each piece into the slot formed in the concrete wall on opposing sides of the foundation and then nailing them together while in place. We used clamps to hold the pieces while we nailed them.

Like all framing, any wood must be insulated from the concrete using a thin bit of plastic called a sill gasket. Hence we lined the inside of the slot in the concrete wall with a sill gasket. From the picture you will notice that we also used some wood spacers to 1) raise the beam so that the top was flush with the sill board, and 2) to fill the gap on one side of the beam (essentially filling the rest of the slot.

The picture at right illustrates the slot, the wood spacers, and the sill gasket. If you look closely you can see that the beam is actually made up of 3 LVL beams.

10 Key Elements of a Concrete Foundation

In the previous post (see 7 steps for pouring a Concrete Foundation)I described the basic steps for building, or as they say in the industry, pouring the foundation. In this post I describe a few of the elements important in building a poured concrete foundation.

1) Excavation
The excavation is the hole that in which the foundation will be built and then filled in. It is very important for two reasons: Safety during the building of the foundation and safety of the building. During the building of the foundation the workers will be moving in and about the excavation so appropriate sloping of the excavation walls is needed to ensure the safety of the workers.

The safety of the building, and ultimately the inhabitants is secured by ensuring that the foundation is placed on ground that can support the weight. Most of the time this is accomplished by placing the footings on undisturbed earth.

2) Footings
The footings receive the load of the house through the load-bearing walls and posts. The type and size of footing is based on a number of factors including soil conditions, size of the house and slope of the site. there are three kinds of footings wall, column and stepped. This cottage foundation has all three. It is obvious that wall footings support walls. Column footings support posts which in turn support beams that support floors for instance. On steeply sloped sites, like at this site, steeped footings are used to keep the footing below the frost line.

3) The Frostline
All building codes require that the footing be placed on undisturbed soil that will be always below the frostline. Frost is nasty thing. Water in the soil if it was below the footing and froze it would expand, thus heaving and possibly cracking and otherwise destroying the foundation.

4) The Key
The key is a slot in the top of the footing to ensure a structural join with the concrete wall above it. The footings are poured and cured - usually a 2 day process before the foundation walls are poured.

5) Rebar
Other material are used to strengthen both concrete footings and walls. Long metal rods call reinforcing bars or rebar for short, usually made of cast iron and is given ridges for better frictional adhesion to the concrete, are placed in the concrete as it is poured or just after it is poured to add strength. Concrete is a material that is very strong in compression, but virtually without strength in tension. To compensate for this imbalance in concrete's behavior, rebar is cast into it to carry the tensile loads.

6) Poured Concrete Wall
This is the most visible part of the foundation. It takes the load of the house and provides the walls for most basements. Like the stepped footings, concrete walls often are stepped, roughly following the shape of the site. The missing parts of the walls are later built using lumber.

7) Window insert
How do you put a window in concrete? This is done by inserting the frame of the window with a special supporting structure temporarily replacing the glass part of the window. So the once the wall concrete forms fo the walls are taken off the window is stuck in place.

8) Anchor Bolts
Everywhere the concrete foundation meets a wood structure above it anchor bolts are embedded in the concrete so that the wooden walls can be bolted to the foundation securely.

9) Knee-wall
The part of a foundation wall, really just a thinner part of the footing that is completing buried in the soil, is often referred to a knee-wall. The knee-wall depth is determined by the depth of the frost wall. Commonly in this area knee-walls are 5 feet deep. The part of the foundation wall that seems to missing in the picture actual has a a knee-wall buried, because of the slope of the site. Remember this is the Cottage on the Edge!

10) Floor Ledge
Eventually the basement floor will be poured in concrete. that will happen after the cottage is closed in a bit more to ensure rain doesn't damage the finish of the concrete floor. The concrete will be at least 4 inches thick and will be poured above and on the portion of the footing that sticks out under the wall. But with the knee-wall the footings are 5 feet under the ground -- of a notch is created in the top of the knee-wall to act as a ledge for the concrete floor.

NEXT: finally I get to use my hammer...

7 Steps to Pouring a Concrete Foundation

When I arrived on Friday (June 6th) the foundation was poured and ready to start building. While I wasn't present for much of the time that my contractor was putting in the foundation, I did make a few trips on prior weekend to see the progress. There are 7 basic steps to creating a foundation:

1) Excavate
The hole is dug, usually using a backhoe or shovel. The whole must be bigger than the area of the foundation in order to accommodate the workers

2) Pour the Footings
The footings are created using forms, place on undisturbed ground. The footing is always wider than the concrete walls. Also a number of smaller footing to support various posts inside the cottage are also usually poured at this time.

The forms for the footing are removed the day after they are poured, but must cure for at least 720 hours. This is to ensure they are strong enough to support the poured concrete walls.

3) Pour the Concrete Walls
Like the footings, forms are used for poured concrete walls. Prefab forms are used 99% of the time. You can see the outline of the forms left in the walls in the various pictures in this post.

Again the forms are taken off and the walls are cured before the next step.

4) Wet Proof
The exterior of the foundation walls are coated with a material which seals the concrete from water. This is often a black asphalt material. Only the portion of the exterior wall to be covered by the soil needs to treated in this way.

5) Weeping tile
Another means to keep water away from the foundation, and hence out of the basement, is to surround the outside of the foundation with a weeping tile. This comes in various forms but in this installation it is a 4 inch diameter flexible pipe with lots of holes in it that is place in a cloth sleeve and covered in washed clean stone. The idea is that any water flowing in the the soil near the foundation collects in the weeping tile and is is carried away from the foundation.

6) Backfill
After the weeping tile is in and the wall wet proofed then the outside of the foundation is backfilled. The soil that is put back is graded such that it slopes away from the foundation, again to ensure water flows away from the wall.

7) Basement floor
The last part of the foundation is the basement floor. This is usually poured when the cottage is built so that the floor is covered so that rain does not ruin the finish of the floor. Most of the time this is done when the house is 'closed-in' but in our case we are going to do it once the main floor is in and covered with a tarp. The reason is that we would like to have the basement completely finished so that we can use it during the rest of the building process for storage and to allow us to continue to work if it rains.

[NOTE: as of today the basement floor has not yet been poured - we are hoping that will be done the week of June 16-20]

Next Post: We will share more details about foundations.

6 Criteria to Consider when Selecting a Building Material Supplier

or...
And the Material Contract goes to...

Today I finalized the supplier for the building materials for the cottage. The winner is Dale's Home Hardware Building Center in Otter Lake.

I have been working closing with Brad Dale at Dales Home Hardware finalizing the last few items. While his quote for almost all of the materials was relatively equal to his main competition at Home Depot, his quote on the Roof truss system was way out of whack with that of Home Depot and a quote I obtained directly from a roof truss supplier. And by out of whack I mean it was almost twice the price.

Brad was a bit curious himself so he had a few 'discussion' with his supplier. The result was that they agreed to not to match the Home Depot price to beat it by roughly $100 dollars.

Now, with almost identical price quotes I determined that the the Home Hardware would be the best overall, based on the following considerations I now deem very important:

1. Price
It is important to drive the best price, but there are other considerations, as long as there isn't a big difference say 5% then the other issues are as important, perhaps become more important. Beware the low ball bitter. Sometimes they are too literal in pricing your materials list, leaving out important elements. for instance for s steel roof, make sure the bit includes all the various metal connectors that are required, those 'extras' cn often skew a price by 10% or more, if they are not included.

It turns out that that the Home Hardware quote was very close to the Home Hardware quote so the following issues became important factors.

2. Service
How has been your experience with the supplier through the bidding process. Did they take you materials list and bit it directly? or did they take the time to understand what you are trying to do? Did they suggest alternatives? Did they suggest ways do reduce the cost?

Your experience with the supplier before you buy is often a good indication what kind of service you are going to get after or while you buy.

Home Hardware, Brad Dale specifically, was very interested in understanding my project and suggested many alternative options and materials.

3. Delivery Flexibility
Any number of things can cause the building schedule to change such as the weather, a missing helper, and heaven forbid a person catastrophe of some sort. Gee! maybe I have even over estimated how long a building task may take and the schedule goes faster.

Home Hardware is close to the Cottage, about 2 kilometers, with a weeks notice, sometimes less, I can make significant adjustments to may delivery schedule.

4. Materials Storage
I will be building from a far. That means I will be building my cottage on extended weekends and a few weeks in which i will take vacation. Security of my materials is paramount. The construction site will be unlike most - there will not be constant constant presence of workers to discourage a thief. Hence I need my supplier to store materials until I will need them, delivering them just in time - as I need and can immediately use them up. If the stud, or the truss, or the engineered floor joist is nailed down it is very difficult to steal.

Home Hardware is willing to keep my ordered material in their lumber yard until I need them. They will even do this for materials that they have sourced from a third party like the roof trusses. In fact the trusses are likely to be delivered well in advance - a month before I need them.

5. Ad Hoc Materials Needs
I am expecting that my materials list is not perfect. I am sure there will be the occasional time when I need that extra stud, or box of nails, or whatever I didn't quite consider or measure right. Without a close source of materials, the project could grind to a halt while that now key piece is sourced and delivered.

Dale's Home Hardware is only 2 kilometes away. I can easily go get the missing material or call them to deliver it.

6. Payment Flexibility
I will be getting, receiving and hence purchasing materials on a weekly, maybe some weeks on a daily basis so having a convenient and fast fast way to pay will reduce the frustration. Plus I may need to send one of the building team, my wife, Lucie or one of my sons to get the material. having a means to address these issues just materials it easier to spend time building rather than dealing with logistics.

At Home Harware, Brad suggested setting up an account and listing all the people that can purchase on the account. I can pay the account weekly or monthly as the balance grows.

For those of you that have been following the quote contest the final point score is :

Home Depot: 5 (WINNER!)
RENO: 0.5 (complete)
BMR: 0 (complete)
Home Hardware: 3 (runner up)

Dale's Home Hardware Building Centre is found on Highway 303 just as you arrive in Otter lake, Quebec:

Material Quote Status... they are dropping like flies...

Oh I forgot I to tell you, I received a voice message from the head of the contractor's department at BMR (Building Materials & Renovations) last week. He confirmed they have misplaced - let's call a spade a spade - LOST - the request for quote and set of plans I left with them. ...and in this words, "would I be so kind to bring around another copy".

Not likely! Plans are not inexpensive! So I have written BMR off the list and assessed them a minus 0.5 (-0.5).

So the running score is:

Home Depot: 3
RENO: 0.5 (complete)
BMR: 0 (complete)
Home Hardware: 1

NOTE: I am moving primary residences this weekend so posting will resume earlier next week...

NEXT: Coming up next week

• Getting the permit
• Getting the foundation started
• ordering materials (maybe

BMR Matereials Quote Update

I also called BMR (Building Materials & Renovations) on Friday as I had noticed their number on my telephone. They hadn't left a message the both times they called but I thought I should call them.

Another telephone journey nightmare. I went through the main desk, the lumber desk, then a contractor sales person and finally to the head of the contractor's department. Bottom line no one have heard of me or my request for a quote.

I described the material quote and the attached plans to the head honcho at the Contractors department, and finally a gleam of hope appeared. He said "Oh! yes! I think Sergio was working on something like that. --- let me investigate and call you back."

As you can guess I didn't get a call back on Friday!

Score remains:

Home Depot: 3
RENO: 0.5 (complete)
BMR: 0.5 (I resisted adding a minus 1 tot he score)
Home Hardware: 1

Finally a Word from RONA...

Well after waiting almost three weeks, I decided to call RONA, if only to give them a piece of my mind on Friday.

I called the main number and asked for the contractor's desk, and got to a cashier. I politely explained that I was looking for a quote on the material list I have left... She said " Oh! you need the contractor desk..." duh!

After weaving through a few more people I was finally connected to the contractor desk, and speaking to the head cheese at the time, I got the message "Oh yes, I emailed that to you a week ago". I obviously didn't get it in my email, but giving them the benefit of the doubt I suggested that it may have been spammed out and asked to have it resent... "But sir it was just an alert that your quote was ready, now you just need to come in an get it".

In my glee that I was about to get my first materials quote I said "Great I will be over this evening to get it!"

So Friday evening, and at the contrctor's desk, I get a blank look from the lady at the desk. Essential saying 'Gee! I haven't a clue where to look'. Fortunately the head cheese, linkely anticipating that the off commercial hours staff were 'clueless', said to direct them to look in the centre island location and look for an envelope with my name on it.

Well Madam Clueless, proceeded after my passed-on directions to pull out almost every file folder on the 'center island'. I became privy to the building plans of several to become customers of RONA, before finally my file was discovered.

With the quote in hand I proceeded home, after a detour to the grocery store, two in fact, eager to crack open the quote.

While RONA won the honours of the first to get me a quote it turned out to be wanting in a number of respects. The major issue with the quote is that they picked and choose what items they quoted on. The only basis seemed to be what was easy to quote. The biggest item missing was a quote for the roof trusses - a key component.

I guess RONA should get some points for responding the fastest, however, everything else was a disaster. Perhaps we will give them a half a point - just to indicated that they did play in the game - but perhaps a different game, or league than the rest...

You will understand if I don't call them back...
"The Canadian How to People" - give me a break, I am embarrassed to say they are a Canadian company...

So far:
Home Depot: 3
RONA: 0.5 (out of the game...)
BMR: 0.5
Home hardware: 1

Material Quotes: an Update

Well if you been following the saga, I have given a request for quote to four suppliers:

• Home Depot (two weeks ago)
• Rona (two weeks ago)
• BMR (one week ago)
• Home Hardware Building Centre (one week ago)

Here is an update:

Home Depot called yesterday to first apologize for being tardy but also to ask a few questions abut the material list.

BMR I know has called because their telephone number is registered on my home phone - twice in fact, and I suspect once on my cell phone. However, they never left a message. I will call them on Monday.

No word from RONA.

No word from Home Hardware but we had a good meeting over the material list last weekend so I wasn't really expecting a call.

So the score so far is:

Home Depot: 3
BMR: 0.5
RONA : 0
Home Hardware: 1

Coming up this week:

• Call the septic system engineer to get him in to do the survey
• Call two contractors for a quote on the foundation
• Touch base (call) the building inspector
• Find a electrician

It's beautiful... Even with all the snow!

My wife and I drove up to the cottage lot today. It was a beautiful day, and a beautiful drive. The temperature is about 12 degrees (C) and sunny. The drive takes about an hour and fifteen minute but it took a little longer, as we enjoyed the drive, catching up on all the changes that happened over the summer.

We thought that the snow fall had been less but when we got onto the lot it was three feet in places... I appreciated that I brought my heavy winter boots!

We walked on to the lot from the access road as the snow bank by the road was five feet high making it impossible to drive on - even my SUV can't negotiate that! It was a beautiful sight. Quiet, sparkling, and the air smells clean. We did have to clear snow off the shed as it was feeling the pressure under the three feet of snow on it.

We paused for a lunch break sitting on the tailgate of my Jimmy, waving at our neighbours as they passed by.

On our way back we stopped at the local Home Building Center, and discussed the quote I needed. Brad Dale, Bobby's son, who now works at the store was very helpful.. In reviewing the plans and the material list he asked all the right questions. Furthermore, he was very forthcoming on suggesting a number of trades people in the area that I could use for the various aspects of the project: electrical, excavation, gas, and drywall.

Overall I was very happy with the service. I should get a quote near the end of next week.

Coming up: In the next week I will be revealing the comparative quotes, and progress towards the foundation contractor.

Quoting Wars: Home Depot 2; Rona 0

I promptly received a call this morning from Mark Leger who is the supervisor at the contractor desk at Home Depot. It was a pleasant call. He asked a few clarifying questions, and then addressed two issues in the request for quote.

First he suggested that he not quote on the sections involving items that require choice, if fact he was very intuitive and further to say that perhaps these are items that would require my better half in the decision making process... as if us men ever have a choice when it comes to picking styles and colours! Rather he said he would concentrate on the construction materials.

Secondly, he suggested that would not be in my best interest to insist on a 90-day quote guarantee as lumber costs are dropping, so I would miss out on any savings.

He thought that I would have a quote by Friday.

No word from Rona - enough said...

The bottom line is

• Home Depot: 2
• Rona: 0
• Home Build Centre: n/a (they haven't received the RFQ yet)

Coming up: I am traveling up to the cottage lot this weekend for two reasons. First to check out the depth of the snow and how it is melting so I can gauge when operations can start. Secondly, I need to visit Bobby Dale at the Home Hardware Building Centre in Otter lake to start the quoting process with him.
;-)

$70K + You would thing they would be scrambling for my business...

It never ceases to amaze me how some businesses do everything in their power to turn customers off.

Just back from dropping off my request for a quote at the local Home Depot and Rona stores. They both can't handle these requests on weekends both stated that they only handle that during week days but they both said they would pass them on to the manager at the contractor desk on Monday - and I would be called! Gee I hope so... an order of $70K plus is up for grabs...

The Home Depot fellow at the contractor's desk said that he would look at getting to the quote first thing on Monday, after the weekend madness. I actually didn't expect an instant turnaround because I know they will need to call out for various sub-quotes for floor systems, roof trusses, etc. But the fellow immediately started to look at the material list and started to ask a few clarifying questions. I was pleased that he was eager to get at it. Well the weekend madness beaconed his attention so we agreed he would call me on Monday with further questions.

I left Home Depot with a smile - actually a stayed a bit to have lunch in the Harvey's which is inside the store -- I had a 'Gary's Burger"... ;-)

A little less satisfying was my experience at RONA. What really floored me was before I left the "lumber" Desk at Rona the fellow at the desk slipped in that a $100 fee would be required for the quote - which of course would be refunded if I actually purchased with them. Gee I guess they think they are doing me a favour or something... I promptly replied that perhaps Rona really didn't want my business after all! The fellow curtly said well the contract desk will call you on Monday...

I and my wife spent a about an hour walking around in RONA - it had been a long time since I had been there - and I just wanted to get updated on the kinds of brands and materials that they stocked for future reference. Unfortunately, my previous impression of RONA was only strengthened... RONA could learn a lot from Home Depot. I left with the following perspective:

• Rona is generally more expensive ( you see I had already did a preliminary costing at Home Depot the previous weekend - that is why I know it is going to cost me about $70K) Yes there were a few, very small few, number of products where Rona was marginally lower in price - but not many
• The place is horribly disorganized, and a mess. I was looking to price some woodstoves and the chimney accessories, and while I new where the general area the product were in, when I got there I almost passed it by. The aisle was so cluttered it obscured the things I was looking for and until I did some acrobatics thought they didn't have them
• The place is filthy! My wife said she was afraid to touch anything as just about everything was covered with a thin film of dust. As we left she said to me "I feel like I need to take a shower!"

It is amazing what some businesses will do to reject your business.

THE SCORE: So far Home Depot 1; Rona 0

I mentioned in an earlier post that I will be getting 3 quotes. My experiences with Home hardware will be coming soon. That store is located near where the cottage is to be built so I need about an hours drive to get there. That will a future story here...

Getting the Material quotes...

Armed with the material list, details for the exterior windows & doors, and a copy of the architect drawings, I am off to start the quoting process.

I also created a supplier cover sheet where I listed a few quoting rules like:

• Substitution of materials - I listed a few brand names for materials
• Location of the construction site - so they know where they are delivering
• A delivery schedule - I grouped the materials in to delivery lots because I don't want materials sitting around for itchy fingers
• How to contact me
• Return of the plans - they are damned expensive and in limited supply
• The quote must be valid for at least 90 days

I have chosen to get three quotes. The lucky suppliers are Home Depot, Rona and Home Hardware Building centres.

The "Plan" - creating the Material List

It took best part of a week, well evening each night after work, to create the Material list.

The architect plans for the Cottage came with a material list, however, I found them to be a bit wanting. First the materials needed to be updated to those I could actually get here in Eastern Ontario. And then there are the myriad of small changes to the plans that mean changes to the materials required.

With list complete, well almost, my wife and I were off to Home Depot on Saturday. I didn't need a formal quote yet, so I just walked the aisles and discovered prices and learned about various options to consider. The staff at Home Depot were actually very helpful, in two departments, electrical and windows/doors, a store person stuck with us through the entire list for that section. That made the process go much faster.

Well at about 7 PM my wife says, "Gary, we have been here for nearly 4 hours". I was floored - I had lost all track of time - I guess I was having too much fun...

Well so far the material list is standing at just shy of $65,000.